SenseUPnP - Looking for feedback

[NVitorino]

Hi everyone,

Were looking to improve Sense UPnP on version 3.2 by improving considerably the discovery of UPnP-based streamers as well as providing better compatibility so there can be better support for gapless, less glitches playing back and DSD support for the devices that do support it.

One of the areas we are looking is metadata display on devices that have a screen, such as Naim. Are there any SenseUPnP users here streaming to such devices? Would be good to have an idea of which devices you are using and when the 3.2 beta is available, you'd be interested in doing some beta testing to ensure a good experience is provided.

Look forward to hear from the community.

Nuno

 

[mountainview]

Hi Nuno, the Devialet Phantoms, as such, don’t have a display. However, the Devialet App displays covers and some metadata while playing music. As you’re aware, streaming to them using UPnP isn’t an easy task. Will be happy to test 3.2.

 

[NVitorino]

Hi Nuno, the Devialet Phantoms, as such, don’t have a display. However, the Devialet App displays covers and some metadata while playing music. As you’re aware, streaming to them using UPnP isn’t an easy task. Will be happy to test 3.2.

I find the 1st gen Phantoms a bit of a lost case for UPnP. I have one at home and just can't get it to play consistently. Connected a PULSEmini via optical and I've been living happy with it ever after

 

[michaelb]

Great news!

I have 2x Naim streamers with screns and would be happy to sign up for the Beta.

Many thanks....

 

[Timberwolf]

Hi, I am posting here at the request of Daniel Collier from Support 'cos my issues relate to long-standing glitches with the uPnP profiles, specifically the Naim ones. These glitches have been around since early 2023 at least and are described below. If you think a 72-year old can cope, I'm happy to take part in the beta testing of updated UPnP profiles.

Background
I have a ZenMini mk3 ethernet connected directly to my router with pass-through to my Naim ND5XS2. I also have a Naim Muso (v1) ethernet connected to the router, but it does not get much use. I use all of Sense, Roon, and Naim apps. Roon core is on Mac (not Innuos). Usually I control Sense playing to my ND5XS2 from my iPad.

The Glitches
When playing to the ND5XS2:

1) using the NDS/NDX profile, after a track PAUSE, the counter goes back to zero and play starts from there when I hit PLAY
2) if I change to the Naim Uniti profile, this glitch does not happen, but instead sometimes play will not stop when I press PAUSE and it takes a few repeated attempts to get it to stop. At other times, pressing PAUSE causes the timer to go back about 15 secs and the play loops from there to the original pause point repeatedly.
3) sometimes the player changes of its own accord from the Naim to the ZenMini player (which is not attached or used) and I have to reselect the Naim as player.

I had remote support sessions with Tiago and Nuno last year looking at these and other issues. I do not know if the glitches are only related to uPnP profiles or affect players connected via usb or SPDIF as I don't have any such connected, but mikehughesescq said he had glitch 1 without using uPnP.

Given the somewhat loose specifications around uPnP (as I am told) and Innuos use of LMS, it must be difficult to establish stable and reliable profiles for the myriad of different streamer / dac combinations, so any effort to improve the existing profiles is to be lauded. Clearly, with three different Naim profiles, Innuos has made an effort to get things working for Naim users, but it is not there yet and I'm not sure which profile is best to use. Happy to try out the beta of 3.2 if it will help.

One other suggestion regarding the Naim profiles - why do Innuos not make direct contact with Naim to get advice on the required settings for their range of servers? When I spoke to Naim support last year on other issues, they seemed amenable to keeping Innuos aware of changes to Naim streaming software and firmware if it would help.

Cheers, Ian

 

[mountainview]

II am wondering which approach Innuos plans to take in Sense 3.2—one based on preconfigured and approved profiles, or one where users can create and share their own profiles. The latter option would require users to have some control over certain parameters, perhaps in the “Advanced Settings” section. From my personal experience, I found that only after making significant adjustments to the LMS settings was I able to establish a fairly stable UPnP connection to my Devialet Phantoms.

 

[malfordlad]

Hi Nuno,

I have a Naim streaming preamp and would be delighted to be a beta tester for a new release.

Best wishes for 2025!

Martin

 

[J_C]

Hi Nuno - I have a Naim Atom which is ethernet connected to Zen Mini 3 ... I use the Naim app for playback as I have TV/BR connected to the Naim and occasionally another analogue device connected via its phonos ... so I guess I am primarily a Sense UPnP user

 

[Andrew]

Hi, I'm using Sense to stream to a Simaudio 390 Network player which has a simple LCD display and would be amenable to acting as beta tester for uPnP development for a suitable profile for this device.

 

[DomTomLondon]

Hi Nuno, I’d be happy to test the new UPnP feature. I have an Auralic Vaga S1 DAC/Streamer (with colour screen).
I usually use it in DAC-mode only, connected to my Zen Mini 3 via USB.
As this is what was suggested was the best SQ.

But am also testing it with Roon at the moment, Using the Zen as Roon core.

I really like the Sense app but would love for it to have a ‘keep playing similar music (from Tidal or Qobuz) after an album or playlist ends’ option. (I noticed quite a few members have also asked for something like this)

But would be fun to try it in UPnP mode.
Regards,
Dominik

 

[J_C]

Hi Nuno, I’d be happy to test the new UPnP feature. I have an Auralic Vaga S1 DAC/Streamer (with colour screen).
I usually use it in DAC-mode only, connected to my Zen Mini 3 via USB.
As this is what was suggested was the best SQ.

But am also testing it with Roon at the moment, Using the Zen as Roon core.

I really like the Sense app but would love for it to have a ‘keep playing similar music (from Tidal or Qobuz) after an album or playlist ends’ option. (I noticed quite a few members have also asked for something like this)

But would be fun to try it in UPnP mode.
Regards,
Dominik

I have my Mini connected directly to my Naim Atom via Ethernet and in Sense settings select “Native UPnP” - this allows me to access the Mini as a server on my Atoms app … you should be able to do the same if I understand correctly … this way you can try UPnP now if you wanted.

 

[DomTomLondon]

I have my Mini connected directly to my Naim Atom via Ethernet and in Sense settings select “Native UPnP” - this allows me to access the Mini as a server on my Atoms app … you should be able to do the same if I understand correctly … this way you can try UPnP now if you wanted.

Thanks J C. Yes using the Zen mini as a server was never the issue.

But I would rather use the Sense App then Auralic’s own (which is very basic looking)

Now when I try to find my Auralic Vega S1 on the network as a UPnP device, it’s not visible.

 

[Kirk]

Thanks J C. Yes using the Zen mini as a server was never the issue.

But I would rather use the Sense App then Auralic’s own (which is very basic looking)

Now when I try to find my Auralic Vega S1 on the network as a UPnP device, it’s not visible.

The S1 doesn't have UPnP.

 

[DomTomLondon]

The S1 doesn't have UPnP.

Ah that would explain it! Cheers!

 

[Kirk]

Ah that would explain it! Cheers!

And little hope of it appearing any time soon, unfortunately. I had some comms with one of their engineers about it.

 

[tortuga_Bob]

The S1 doesn't have UPnP.

Auralic has never supported UPnP and probably never will. Mr. X seems very stubborn about certain things, e.g., UPnP, adding Squeezelite, overhauling LDS control App, which is one of the reasons I have not used my Aries G2 in over a year. They seem more interested in creating SoTA hardware and have forgotten the importance of end-user experience

 

[michaelb]

Great news!

I have 2x Naim streamers with screns and would be happy to sign up for the Beta.

Many thanks....

Finally got round to signing up to the Beta programme, assuming this is what I needed to do....

 

[malfordlad]

How should we provide feedback for the beta programme? (I don't have anything bad to say).

 

[Stephen Healy]

How should we provide feedback for the beta programme? (I don't have anything bad to say).

Feel free to add comments to this thread, thanks!

 

[malfordlad]

My feedback is positive so far. After installation of the beta I searched for streamers and found my Naim NAC272 within a few seconds. After some trial and error I settled on compatibility mode and maximum frequency 44.1Khz. The streamer just hissed and stopped outside of compatibility mode (I don't know why so abandoned that). I haven't got track title or artist to display on the naim screen yet. Will investigate that further. As set up at the moment I can play from Qobuz, internet radio or from local files on my Zen. It works reliably, much more reliably than the old LMS UPNP/DLNA bridge did on my vortexbox. So thank you.