My experience of the UPnP implementation that came with 3.2 is that while there can be some improvements with some endpoints, and the UI is somewhat simpler, we lost the profiles that worked well with some endpoints. For example, while I was previously able to use a profile for the Oppo 205 that worked rather well, it is now useless. Whether in compatibility or without, Sense loses regularly the Oppo, there is no longer gapless playing whether for local tracks or Qobuz, and in compatibility mode, the playing will not last more than a few seconds. Admittedly, the Oppo 205 has a problematic implementation of UPnP as I do not get good results with the systems I tried: Audirvana and mConnect. So we will have to be patient until Innuos manages to bring back what the profiles where achieving...
SenseUPnP: Feedback Thread
- Thread starter Stephen Healy
- Start date
I found this regarding newer ND555 from its manual/white paper:
"Streaming from a network, ND 555 is compatible with PCM sampling rates of up to 384kHz and with double-rate DSD (DSD128, sampling rate 5.6448MHz). Because the ND 555’s PCM1704 DAC chips are not DSD compatible, DSD signals are transcoded to PCM within the DSP. First the DSD signal is downsampled to 352.8kHz, 40-bit floating point PCM and low-pass filtered to remove DSD’s noise-shaped ultrasonic quantisation noise. Then it is upsampled to 705.6kHz/24-bit for passing to the DAC stage."
Therefore, even though the Naim 'accepts' DoP it is in fact proceeding to convert to PCM first for the DAC to decode, so it is not playing a 1-bit DSD stream; the Naim still processes as PCM before being converted to analogue. I may be wrong but i believe Chord Electronics DACs have a slightly similar philosophy. Point being; sending DSD creates more work for the streamer because it has to go through more processes to convert it into a PCM signal that it is capable of decoding through its LPCM DAC. Apologies if i have old/incorrect information about the Naim streamer.
DSD on Naim Streamers
Hi somehow I have never really felt that dsd was any better flac or wav… it should be … is Naim converting dsd on the fly … don’t get me wrong dsd sounds good but on my ND555 it just does not sound quite as dynamic.community.naimaudio.com
Thanks for this info, Stephan. It would seem that DoP is a way to "smuggle" a DSD stream past a digital interface that isn't set up to deal with this format. What the DAC does after this is another problem, for which there are a variety of solutions. For anyone interested, there's a discussion of this at the PS Audio Forum, who are passionate DSD advocates.
Keeping with the spirit of the thread, here is my current experience using UPnP.
Configuration:
Zen Mk3, Sense v 3.2.5
Naim NDS streamer connected to the Zen by ethernet
Compatibility mode off
Display track data on streamer display is off
In this configuration, WAV and FLAC files and Qobuz play fine.
Single-rate DSD files do not play when DSD support is on. The track progress indicator advances approximately 9 seconds and then loops back to the beginning of the track with no sound.
When DSD support is off, DSD files play. While sound quality is acceptable, subjectively, it is poorer than when I play the same track from a flash drive using the USB A port on the front panel of the NDS.
Keeping with the spirit of the thread, here is my current experience using UPnP.
Configuration:
Zen Mk3, Sense v 3.2.5
Naim NDS streamer connected to the Zen by ethernet
Compatibility mode off
Display track data on streamer display is off
In this configuration, WAV and FLAC files and Qobuz play fine.
Single-rate DSD files do not play when DSD support is on. The track progress indicator advances approximately 9 seconds and then loops back to the beginning of the track with no sound.
When DSD support is off, DSD files play. While sound quality is acceptable, subjectively, it is poorer than when I play the same track from a flash drive using the USB A port on the front panel of the NDS.
Any other Naim ND555 Atom HE owners having problems with Quobuz occasionally skipping to the beginning of the next track on albums?
It was fine for me until the last two beta versions, but a constant now. Not with every track, but regular enough to be a pain.....
Out of curiosity, I am now using the Statement as a Roon Core controlled by Roon and the skipping seems to have stopped....
It was fine for me until the last two beta versions, but a constant now. Not with every track, but regular enough to be a pain.....
Out of curiosity, I am now using the Statement as a Roon Core controlled by Roon and the skipping seems to have stopped....
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Hi to all, after six months or so of not having an Innuos. I am back and recently acquired a demo from my dealer of the ZENITH MK3 which I should be receiving in a day or two. I will be looking to set it up with my DCS Rossini Apex Player. I sub to Roon, Audrivana, and use Mosaic also have a nas 9Synology)set up with MinimServer. I missed having the Innuos.if my audio memory has not failed me I remember it being significantlyclearer/cleaner than my Roon Nucleus one on my network. I have a direct ethernet line from my router/modem . I recall plugging that into the lan and my Silver Dragon Moon USB into the pervious piece (Aperio) now replaced by the Rossini. Any connection tips or items to avoid to get the best sound quality? I plan on using Sense again, I liked it Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. I had some trouble getting the Rossini Player recognized UPnP in Audrivana. got it with help from them, and apple MiniMac setting. Works well now , wondering if I am going to experience some UPnP issues with my ZENITH MK 3 and Rossini? YHX
Hi Anthony, I would say do not use UPnP, and take the USB out of the ZENith like you used to with the Apeiro.
The Rossini is a big upgrade, so accordingly I might suggest you take a look at the ZEN Next-Gen or ZENith Next-Gen as a more equal partner to the DAC. The ZENith Mk3 was released in 2018 and just recently have announced the discontinuation of that product. It is being replaced by a new model called the Stream3.
Zen Mini mk3 - 3.2.5
Plinius Inspire 980
Cannot see the streamer with UPnP enabled. Works ok with audirvana and upnp query detects the streamer and shows it as a media renderer.
Plinius Inspire 980
Cannot see the streamer with UPnP enabled. Works ok with audirvana and upnp query detects the streamer and shows it as a media renderer.
