Mk3 & Next-Gen: what's the difference?

[DanCollier]

Statement NG was just an upgrade to the power side of things, new AC/DC rectifier boards in the PSU box and new regulator boards in the server box.

Original PSU of Statement. 8 separate windings in the transformer going to 8 seperate AC/DC converters and each cable in to the server box has 4 seperate circuits.

View attachment 406

In the NG modell the transformer is the same but the windings are connected 3+3 (2 windings are not used anymore) and only 2 rectifierboards and the cables has 4+4 wires for one voltage.

View attachment 405


When the ZEN and ZENith NG was released with the new motherboard and GaN PSU regulators I was told that this would not be possible to do as an uppgrade to the Statement NG as the server box of the Statement was to small to fit these devices if that still is true I dont know.

The Nazare server might be the new "Statement" but there is a rather big jump in price from Statement NG to Nazare.

That's largely correct yes thank you, Statement NG was primarily a substantial upgrade to the power supply section. However, a booster was also fitted to the main system, specifically for the processor for faster transients.

Regarding the Statement being eligible for a future upgrade to its mainboard, this is not something that is planned.

 

[Esscee]

So for Statement NG owners, there is no upgrade as such only to Zenith NG or Nazare but at some serious cost!
Think Innuos could be missing something here.
Surely it ought not to cost Innuos that much to develop an I2S output upgrade/module solely for the Statement NG and keep the Statement NG owners happy within Innuos?
Don't go down the PS Audio route, who have decided to stop firmware updates to their DSD DAC Mk2 after only 2 years from introduction. That is one way to lose customer loyalty and satisfaction after promising many years of firmware updates.
Smacks of Gerald Ratner and his "crap" comment from a few years back, serious "own goal"!

 

[frank7036]

So for Statement NG owners, there is no upgrade as such only to Zenith NG or Nazare but at some serious cost!
Think Innuos could be missing something here.
Surely it ought not to cost Innuos that much to develop an I2S output upgrade/module solely for the Statement NG and keep the Statement NG owners happy within Innuos?
Don't go down the PS Audio route, who have decided to stop firmware updates to their DSD DAC Mk2 after only 2 years from introduction. That is one way to lose customer loyalty and satisfaction after promising many years of firmware updates.
Smacks of Gerald Ratner and his "crap" comment from a few years back, serious "own goal"!

Innuos could market something like the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 unit or Statement (original or NG) owners could purchase that.
Statement NG is according to Innuos still above ZenithNG in the performance stakes, it’s just not as configurable. Perhaps a new version is in the pipeline?
PS Audio discontinued the DSD Mk2 as it has a new DAC (ladder configuration). Ted Smith now isn’t contracted to PS Audio so that’s why there isn’t anything more happening to the Mk2. I still hope Ted Smith finds someone to launch his “super dac “ that was in development.
Innuos did a similar job with the Mk3 product line and the Stream models. Product lines evolve.

 

[DanCollier]

So for Statement NG owners, there is no upgrade as such only to Zenith NG or Nazare but at some serious cost!
Think Innuos could be missing something here.
Surely it ought not to cost Innuos that much to develop an I2S output upgrade/module solely for the Statement NG and keep the Statement NG owners happy within Innuos?
Don't go down the PS Audio route, who have decided to stop firmware updates to their DSD DAC Mk2 after only 2 years from introduction. That is one way to lose customer loyalty and satisfaction after promising many years of firmware updates.
Smacks of Gerald Ratner and his "crap" comment from a few years back, serious "own goal"!

Firmware updates for the Mk3, Pulse series, and Statement will continue for a good long while yet, so there’s no need for concern on that front. Lots more to come as we keep working away on improving Sense.
Whilst we wont be developing a dedicated output module for the Statement, there may be an alternate option for those users in the future for those users who want an output like i2s for example. Nothing to discuss on for now however as all focus is on Stream series and the new Nazare system.

 

[DanCollier]

Innuos could market something like the Matrix X-SPDIF 2 unit or Statement (original or NG) owners could purchase that.
Statement NG is according to Innuos still above ZenithNG in the performance stakes, it’s just not as configurable. Perhaps a new version is in the pipeline?
PS Audio discontinued the DSD Mk2 as it has a new DAC (ladder configuration). Ted Smith now isn’t contracted to PS Audio so that’s why there isn’t anything more happening to the Mk2. I still hope Ted Smith finds someone to launch his “super dac “ that was in development.
Innuos did a similar job with the Mk3 product line and the Stream models. Product lines evolve.

We have many users, some of which on this forum that use such devices as the Matrix audio DDCs which do work well!

 

[Malc.]

Firmware updates for the Mk3, Pulse series, and Statement will continue for a good long while yet, so there’s no need for concern on that front. Lots more to come as we keep working away on improving Sense.
Whilst we wont be developing a dedicated output module for the Statement, there may be an alternate option for those users in the future for those users who want an output like i2s for example. Nothing to discuss on for now however as all focus is on Stream series and the new Nazare system.

Are you saying that the Statement NG has finally bit the dust after 2 long years ? Along with another 2 year old veteran the Pulse ? I do try and keep up but that has been challenging with Innuos recently.

 

[DanCollier]

Are you saying that the Statement NG has finally bit the dust after 2 long years ? Along with another 2 year old veteran the Pulse ? I do try and keep up but that has been challenging with Innuos recently.

The Statement is still current and still remains one of the best music servers/streaners on the market today. Also just to clarify, the Statement itself was released in 2018/19 and the NG upgrade which as mentioned above was largely an upgrade to the PSU section was made available in 2023.

 

[Malc.]

Thanks Dan, I'm well aware of when the the original Statement was introduced, that's why I referred to the NG. Your comment " Firmware updates for the MK3, Pulse Series and Statement will continue for a good long time yet " does however imply the Statement is on borrowed time.

 

[mooney058]

Once you connect the USB disc ripper, when you go into the Sense app Disc Ripper interface it should ask you to enter the offset value of the drive, and also provide you with a link to a database where you can check your model of USB ripper to see what its stated offset value is

Stephen, apologies, possibly a recurring question. When I get my Stream1, hook up and external optical device, I should be getting 16 bit / 44.1 kHz, correct?

 

[frank7036]

Stephen, apologies, possibly a recurring question. When I get my Stream1, hook up and external optical device, I should be getting 16 bit / 44.1 kHz, correct?

No/Yes. The optical device being talked about is a DVD/CD read/write device that is used to copy digital files from a CD to the internal storage of the unit.
If you copy (RIP) the digital data without error from a CD and then play that copied file through the Stream and into a standalone DAC (or if you purchased the optional internal dac) then yes the playback will be 44.1/16 as the source was a CD.

 

[mooney058]

No/Yes. The optical device being talked about is a DVD/CD read/write device that is used to copy digital files from a CD to the internal storage of the unit.
If you copy (RIP) the digital data without error from a CD and then play that copied file through the Stream and into a standalone DAC (or if you purchased the optional internal dac) then yes the playback will be 44.1/16 as the source was a CD.

Thanks a lot, indeed I meant playback, this is what I want actually

 

[Stephen Healy]

So for Statement NG owners, there is no upgrade as such only to Zenith NG or Nazare but at some serious cost!
Think Innuos could be missing something here.
Surely it ought not to cost Innuos that much to develop an I2S output upgrade/module solely for the Statement NG and keep the Statement NG owners happy within Innuos?
Don't go down the PS Audio route, who have decided to stop firmware updates to their DSD DAC Mk2 after only 2 years from introduction. That is one way to lose customer loyalty and satisfaction after promising many years of firmware updates.
Smacks of Gerald Ratner and his "crap" comment from a few years back, serious "own goal"!

The plan is not to leave STATEMENT owners behind.
Would there be appeal to have price/performance equivalents of the Nazare FLOW and NET (output stage and switch) at Next-Gen level meaning this would be a good match for STATEMENT also? These would be standalone devices. Component-level return-to-base upgrades for the STATEMENT (besides SSD storage) would not be viable.
As Dan rightly pointed out, the underlying platform of STATEMENT has been going since 2018 but is still going to be receiving future updates, and still serviced.

 

[Malc.]

Is the Statement Next Gen discontinued ? or does it remain in the Innuos portfolio of current servers/streamers ?
If, as I suspect, it is discontinued why would there be any appeal to have price/performance equivalents of the Nazaré FLOW and NET ?
I have been with Innuos a number of years now, Zen/Zenith/PhoenixUSB/PhoenixNET/Statement NG, for the first time I find myself starting to consider alternatives.

 

[Stephen Healy]

Is the Statement Next Gen discontinued ? or does it remain in the Innuos portfolio of current servers/streamers ?
If, as I suspect, it is discontinued why would there be any appeal to have price/performance equivalents of the Nazaré FLOW and NET ?
I have been with Innuos a number of years now, Zen/Zenith/PhoenixUSB/PhoenixNET/Statement NG, for the first time I find myself starting to consider alternatives.

The STATEMENT remains current, but it is inevitable that it will be discontinued at some date or another. The heart of the question here is looking beyond to the scope of longevity for STATEMENT units, in terms of wanting newer generation benefits as well as an upgrade path without strictly having to change up to a much more substantial investment for an entirely new streamer/server, or trading-in/part-exchanging. At least, this is what i interpret from the previous comments.
As mentioned, gutting all the innards out for new internals is not possible, but potentially external units could help bridge this gap. So for example, a higher-end network switch that is better than the PhoenixNET and full width, and/or a a very high-performance output stage box which would address USB to I2S, ISL, and other protocols which has also been requested and give the modular output benefits of the newer models.
These devices could look uniform with a STATEMENT and offer improvements to sound. They would be entirely optional.
Combined with the fact we will still be servicing STATEMENT and continuing with software updates, is there a different dimension for upgradability to keep STATEMENTs relevant you would like?

 

[Malc.]

Hi Stephen, Thank you for the clarification.
I recognise and appreciate the modular flexibility being designed into new Innuos products and although I currently have no such requirement it is always good to have choice. It is difficult at this stage to comment regarding any specific upgrades or developments I would like to see as I'm still digesting the scope of the new Innuos product range. Hopefully in the short term pricing information and dealer demo availability will fill in a few gaps.

 

[markb]

The plan is not to leave STATEMENT owners behind.
Would there be appeal to have price/performance equivalents of the Nazare FLOW and NET (output stage and switch) at Next-Gen level meaning this would be a good match for STATEMENT also? These would be standalone devices. Component-level return-to-base upgrades for the STATEMENT (besides SSD storage) would not be viable.
As Dan rightly pointed out, the underlying platform of STATEMENT has been going since 2018 but is still going to be receiving future updates, and still serviced.

I’ve been involved in the hifi industry for many years and I realise all products eventually reach the end of their lifespan. Upgrade paths are a great option.
The option of a STATEMENT “add on” would be very appealing to me. Maybe in a STATEMENT or Zenith NG style single chassis? My Linn Klimax DSM has a SFP input and I would find this very appealing. I wonder whether a FLOW/NET type of switch added to the STATEMENT will bring many sonic benefits to a Linn Klimax DSM? I am very keen to find out. I could then possibly upgrade the STATEMENT at a later stage to Nazare? Interesting times ahead.

 

[PeterS2]

I have an Innuos Zen Mk3 I bought a few years ago with a 2TB hard drive and am interested in upgrading the sound. I use it mainly as a storage device for downloaded music, the CDs I rip, and then as a player/server feeding into my stereo system. I am not too interested in accessing commercial streaming services. The question I have is what would be a a good upgrade? I understand it is a discontinued product, so is it better to add the Phoenix USB re-clocker or any re-clocker for that matter into the system or is it better to upgrade to a Zenith Mk3 or the next gen?

 

[frank7036]

Zen upgrade or not?
This previous post Might be of interest.

 

[PeterS2]

Zen upgrade or not?
This previous post Might be of interest.

Thank you very much for pointing me in the right direction here! I have a bit of reading to do now. It's a little confusing when first trying to find one's way through the threads here. I do love the fact, though, that Innuos has these discussion board, especially that they (service) actually answers and tries to help. Take care and enjoy the music!

 

[frank7036]

If as you say you are not interested in commercial streaming why bother with a streamer?
I understand that streaming CAN be playing music from a library (internal or external/NAS etc.) but IMO you are paying a lot for unused options.
You don’t mention your DAC but that, to me, is more likely an upgrade option than the box you use to store and push music to.
Is your DAC optimised more for USB or another input? Does your DAC only accept data files as passed to it or does it internally upsample and regenerate the data to another format before converting to music output (NOS, Ladder DAC or over sample/FPGA )?
You might be better off waiting for a couple of years to observe how Innuos and its competitors develop their product lines.