STREAM Series Megapost

[frank7036]

Do not know yet. Will decide after listening to the Audio Note gear.

Sorry, I badly worded my question - I understand that if you want a module changed or installed the unit has to go back to the dealer - I was wondering if they had mentioned whether it was a case of ‘not a problem, when it arrives we can install while you wait” or is it “drop it off and we will do in a short time and ring you” scenario?
Cheers.

 

[Stephen Healy]

Thank you Stephen for a welcome clarification of the new model line-up, what’s on offer and why. Big job to get that down in digital print, congrats.
I noticed the comment about faster Ethernet ports using faster switches - can you comment on what Innuos perceive as the gain to sound reproduction from this adaptation?
As I understand it the PheonixNET switch was deliberately designed to use 100Mb.

This one is a little less to do with sound and more to do with very fast transfer rates especially on NAS imports or NAS backups. Keep in mind, all your other network devices need to support 2.5gbe which at the moment is pretty rare at the moment. You would only have this if you specifically invested in it throughout your network, otherwise the ports on the STREAM series will only operate at the speed that it is linked to (which most of the time is going to be gigabit).

The PhoenixNET indeed has 100mb due to the simpler chip we are using - and part of the reason for using that cheap is its lower power consumption and the fact it can be powered by an external linear power rail which is actually very rare.
One idea we did have, and it would be interesting to gauge feedback on this, would be that on a software level we could add something in settings where you could actually set the operating speed of the Ethernet port. So, we could have 'audio mode' that throttles to 100mb, a 'speed mode' which enabled 2.5gbe, or a 'balanced mode' that runs at gigabit. You could change these on the fly depending on whether you doing data transfer, or doing critical listening etc.

 

[_Nick]

Stephen thanks for this thread it is really helpful. However, one final question which I may have missed… is the Stream 3 + Phoenix USB Output module going to be a significant and worthwhile improvement in sound quality over the Zenith MK3 + Phoenix USB Re-clocker? Many thanks in advance

 

[DanCollier]

Stephen thanks for this thread it is really helpful. However, one final question which I may have missed… is the Stream 3 + Phoenix USB Output module going to be a significant and worthwhile improvement in sound quality over the Zenith MK3 + Phoenix USB Re-clocker? Many thanks in advance

In case you missed it, Stephen did provide some detail on the expected performance differences between the Stream 3 and what it replaces in the Pulsar and ZENith Mk3. I’ve copied that below for your reference.

You’ll find that the Stream 3, like the Pulsar does offer a performance improvement over the ZENith MK3. You may notice a further bump in performance too now with the introduction of RTK (real time kernel) too!

That said, you currently have the standalone PhoenixUSB, which will deliver better performance than the integrated PhoenixUSB Lite module you could fit in the Stream 3. However, the latter does offer a very neat one box solution.

It is definitely something worth exploring with your dealer once units become available. In your case, I would personally consider upgrading to the ZEN Next Gen paired with the PhoenixUSB Lite. With a trade-in of your ZENith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB, this could be a more attractive option overall and a larger improvement in performance for you. Food for thought!

"STREAM3
(versus ZENith Mk3 & PULSAR)
The STREAM3 shares a fair amount of DNA with the PULSAR since this proved to be a very well-received and effective platform. Consequently, this means STREAM3 is a very solid upgrade over a ZENith Mk3 in terms of sound, although existing PULSAR owners may find sound quality to be broadly similar. The same PSU with 300VA transformer and ARC6 active rectification module is present, as is the CX regulator and solid 10mm CNC-machined chassis. The STREAM3 has a TLC SSD rather than the pSLC of the PULSAR, but STREAM3 does have Real-Time Kernel support. Essentially, the STREAM3 could be thought of like a PULSAR that now has storage and music server capabilities (along with all the other generational benefits mentioned earlier in this post)."

 

[_Nick]

In case you missed it, Stephen did provide some detail on the expected performance differences between the Stream 3 and what it replaces in the Pulsar and ZENith Mk3. I’ve copied that below for your reference.

You’ll find that the Stream 3, like the Pulsar does offer a performance improvement over the ZENith MK3. You may notice a further bump in performance too now with the introduction of RTK (real time kernel) too!

That said, you currently have the standalone PhoenixUSB, which will deliver better performance than the integrated PhoenixUSB Lite module you could fit in the Stream 3. However, the latter does offer a very neat one box solution.

It is definitely something worth exploring with your dealer once units become available. In your case, I would personally consider upgrading to the ZEN Next Gen paired with the PhoenixUSB Lite. With a trade-in of your ZENith Mk3 and PhoenixUSB, this could be a more attractive option overall and a larger improvement in performance for you. Food for thought!

"STREAM3
(versus ZENith Mk3 & PULSAR)
The STREAM3 shares a fair amount of DNA with the PULSAR since this proved to be a very well-received and effective platform. Consequently, this means STREAM3 is a very solid upgrade over a ZENith Mk3 in terms of sound, although existing PULSAR owners may find sound quality to be broadly similar. The same PSU with 300VA transformer and ARC6 active rectification module is present, as is the CX regulator and solid 10mm CNC-machined chassis. The STREAM3 has a TLC SSD rather than the pSLC of the PULSAR, but STREAM3 does have Real-Time Kernel support. Essentially, the STREAM3 could be thought of like a PULSAR that now has storage and music server capabilities (along with all the other generational benefits mentioned earlier in this post)."

Hi Dan. This reply is exactly what I needed in terms of which direction to go. Looks like it will be the Zen NG next for me then. I’m looking forward to the demo already. Many thanks!

 

[Marco1]

Thanks Stephen. All seems to be logical except why Innuos skipped using the Stream 2 designation (unless I skipped over it in your above explanation). I understand that all currently available options seem to be covered in the Stream 1 and Stream 3 models and that it brings the lines closer together in many respects leaving no room for a Stream 2. Human nature, I think still makes one think that the Stream 2 maybe right around the corner and wonder what it will offer.

 

[Stephen Healy]

Thanks Stephen. All seems to be logical except why Innuos skipped using the Stream 2 designation (unless I skipped over it in your above explanation). I understand that all currently available options seem to be covered in the Stream 1 and Stream 3 models and that it brings the lines closer together in many respects leaving no room for a Stream 2. Human nature, I think still makes one think that the Stream 2 maybe right around the corner and wonder what it will offer.

Using an odd-number sequence across a range is quite common and does indeed leave scope for something with an even-number to slot in, but we currently do not see much need for a STREAM2 - it would have to slot in at quite a specific price and form factor between a STREAM1 + LPS1 and a STREAM3. As mentioned in the main thread, the ZENmini Mk3 + LPSU very often encroached on ZEN Mk3 and led to confusion. But if there is a lot of demand for such a model then it could be considered, but i assure you it is not in the pipeline and not round the corner.
Also, some cultures do relate bad fortune to some even-numbers, much like the west with 13 and so on.

 

[brianmedia]

When using the AES/SPDIF output what (type) clocks are being used in Stream3

I prefer an AES connection to DAC, and if I bought the Stream3 I would NOT want to add another DDC. Trying to keep it simple, so was thinking of the SPDIF module.

Reason I ask is it seems Innuos always promotes USB, but I hope technically the SPDIF board would be very high quality as well (and not just like a secondary option).

 

[Stephen Healy]

When using the AES/SPDIF output what (type) clocks are being used in Stream3

I prefer an AES connection to DAC, and if I bought the Stream3 I would NOT want to add another DDC. Trying to keep it simple, so was thinking of the SPDIF module.

Reason I ask is it seems Innuos always promotes USB, but I hope technically the SPDIF board would be very high quality as well (and not just like a secondary option).

The SPDIF board uses TCXO clocks

 

[erho]

The SPDIF board uses

The SPDIF board uses TCXO clocks

what does this mean exactly? is it high quality and comparable to usb?

 

[DJpay]

Using an odd-number sequence across a range is quite common and does indeed leave scope for something with an even-number to slot in, but we currently do not see much need for a STREAM2 - it would have to slot in at quite a specific price and form factor between a STREAM1 + LPS1 and a STREAM3. As mentioned in the main thread, the ZENmini Mk3 + LPSU very often encroached on ZEN Mk3 and led to confusion. But if there is a lot of demand for such a model then it could be considered, but i assure you it is not in the pipeline and not round the corner.
Also, some cultures do relate bad fortune to some even-numbers, much like the west with 13 and so on.

Hi Stephen, many thanks for this very comprehensive overview of the new Stream series (and it’s varied possible permutations). Perhaps I am being a bit dense, or confused (it’s an age thing), over the whole Innuos product range which seems a bit too complicated and, to me, confusing. I have fairly recently invested heavily in an Innuos Zenith NG and am still confused as to where the NG range now fits in. It would appear that there is the Stream range, with seemingly endless permutations, the NG range with fairly limited permutations, the Statement range and then, at the top, the new Nazare range? Maybe I have missed something amongst all these multitude of Innuos product changes/ improvements, but it leaves me with the concern that I have been too precipitate in going for the Zenith NG (couldn’t afford the Statement NG, and as for the Nazare ). Perhaps a little more “simplicity” is called for.

 

[Stephen Healy]

Hi Stephen, many thanks for this very comprehensive overview of the new Stream series (and it’s varied possible permutations). Perhaps I am being a bit dense, or confused (it’s an age thing), over the whole Innuos product range which seems a bit too complicated and, to me, confusing. I have fairly recently invested heavily in an Innuos Zenith NG and am still confused as to where the NG range now fits in. It would appear that there is the Stream range, with seemingly endless permutations, the NG range with fairly limited permutations, the Statement range and then, at the top, the new Nazare range? Maybe I have missed something amongst all these multitude of Innuos product changes/ improvements, but it leaves me with the concern that I have been too precipitate in going for the Zenith NG (couldn’t afford the Statement NG, and as for the Nazare ). Perhaps a little more “simplicity” is called for.

STREAM does not replace Next-Gen, it is positioned beneath to replace PULSE and Mk3 series, so there is no change in the status of your Next-Gen that you invested in

 

[Stephen Healy]

what does this mean exactly? is it high quality and comparable to usb?

TCXO are good quality clocks and will also be used on our forthcoming Performance DAC. It's not on a par with the OCXO clock we use on all the 'Phoenix' devices, so perhaps if there was demand for a 'PhoenixSPDIF' it could be considered, but generally if you are looking for digital performance and precision at that level, SPDIF would probably not be our first recommendation as USB and I2S have better potential.

 

[DJpay]

STREAM does not replace Next-Gen, it is positioned beneath to replace PULSE and Mk3 series, so there is no change in the status of your Next-Gen that you invested in

Well I am very glad to hear that it is not a wasted investment, but still confused over all the “techno babble” surrounding the various Innuos ranges, but I am sure that it makes sense to the developers and others on the forum here . Anyway pleased to say that the Zenith NG sounds good in my system, so am enjoying the investment .

 

[Stephen Healy]

Well I am very glad to hear that it is not a wasted investment, but still confused over all the “techno babble” surrounding the various Innuos ranges, but I am sure that it makes sense to the developers and others on the forum here . Anyway pleased to say that the Zenith NG sounds good in my system, so am enjoying the investment .

Glad you are still enjoying it!
But to reinforce the idea of simplifying, I should reiterate that going into 2025 we had 9 streamers across 4 ranges.

By the end of this year, it will be 5 streamers across 3 ranges

And they will have a consistent philosophy of modular outputs and storage throughout; the main points of difference simply being increased sound quality as you move up the range.

That's it in basic terms with no techno-babble!

 

[DJpay]

Glad you are still enjoying it!
But to reinforce the idea of simplifying, I should reiterate that going into 2025 we had 9 streamers across 4 ranges.

By the end of this year, it will be 5 streamers across 3 ranges

And they will have a consistent philosophy of modular outputs and storage throughout; the main points of difference simply being increased sound quality as you move up the range.

That's it in basic terms with no techno-babble!

Thank you Stephen for putting it simply for me. I was actually being a little facetious, as I actually find the techno-babble quite handy at times, especially at the end of a dinner party, when those last guests refuse to go home. I say to them would you like to hear some music played through my wonderful server/ streamer, it has an ARC6 NGaN Power Supply, with Active Rectification, 300VA Audio Grade Transformer, high-performance choke and 130000uF of Mundorf capacitors, it also has a Core i7 Embedded processor with 8 performance cores, providing further core separation for AudioCore whilst maintaining excellent overall performance for a responsive system at all times. In addition to this it also features a pSLC (pseudo Single-Level Cell) industrial-grade SSD for the OS, powered independently, which is added directly to the PreciseAudio board. As pSLC contains simplified controllers, they generate much less EMI compared to standard SSDs, you also realise that it also features a High Performance Expandable Storage Management System (XSM) which allows a single pool of storage from multiple drives. It also supports an internal, high performance NVMe PCIe drive up to 8TB with an additional externally accessible M.2 NVMe slot for up to 8TB for a total 16TB of seamless storage. Of course, by this time, they are yawning, reaching for their coats and heading for the door, so allowing my wife and I to clear up the mess and head for bed .