Phoenix USB Clocker - Audio Science Review
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Good grief. Do you understand the importance of signal isolation, signal integrity and minimizing jitter going through the USB protocol?
So I have pointed you to the USB specs yet you still don’t understand. That is fine. I won’t judge you.
The specs don't say ANYTHING about JITTER!! Just error correction and buffering packets which is NOT jitterSo I have pointed you to the USB specs yet you still don’t understand. That is fine. I won’t judge you.
It's Sad...
For yourself,.that you try to ridicule people who have experience and knowledge in the field of music systems,which you clearly lack.
I have been in a group of the most knowledgeable in Sweden in this interest since the beginning of the 90s.
AND,.you embarrass yourself by adding rudeness..!!
This,.just because you don't want to listen and learn from the experiences of others.
It's no idea to continue this conversation.
Have a good Tuesday evening...
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Do you understand what a USB asynchronous data stream is? And how the receiving usb system reclocks the data under chapter 11.7.1 ??
LOL. The clock at the DAC still induces some jitter EVEN IF the transmission is ASYNC which is why the Phoenix USB is there to minimize further noise and jitter as the signal is traveling to the DAC. Sorry bud, your ideal/theoretical audio science topics ARE NEVER translated to reality in 100% accuracy (nothing is lol). Just an approximation that's all
You carry on too in the pseudoscience world
Just to add more context of reality. It's really simple: GARBAGE in = Garbage out, reclocking a garbage signal through ASYNC (in the USB receiver in the DAC) is still a little polished but still garbage signal at the end of the day. The Phoenix reclocks and removes some noise (as much as it can) so that the USB receiver's jitter becomes irrelevant and now you get a better overall signal feeding your DAC. Also, it's best to resolve the garbage at the source, hence why streamers like Pulsar will always feed a higher quality signal to your DAC than your noisy USB PCs or Macs.
Jitter in modern DACS is rejected to at least an order of magnitude or two below audibility - even on an interface which carries the clock like Toslink. Further - if your input to the DAC is USB, there is no jitter in any case, since the DAC clock fully controls the clocking.
There lies the pseudoscience. Those jitter are audible even in picosecond range lol and if you believe it's not, enjoy your stay at the pseudoscience world. Heck jitter is just one parameter, I haven't even accounted for the USB noise yet which reflects in the way sound is perceived as the removal of a blanket in the presentation, aka dynamic range increase (this is different from you are about to quote in advance AP555B FFT plot of a 1KHz sine wave aka SINAD or I call it AmirNAD)
@Stebbo ...
I have a simple question...
Are you listening to what you're talking about at all,.or is it just technical speculation.?
Because if you are listening,.well then you must be hearing impaired if you don't hear the difference.
You can't be so stupid so you think @SchiitMjolnir2 and I,.are two guys who need psychiatric help....
I started back in 1994,.a Hifi and Music Association that became known all over Sweden.
In that association we conducted many tests,.among other things, on different USB-cables.
Everyone,.over all the years, could hear the difference between different USB cables and later also Ethernet cables.
Now try to draw conclusions from that.
And there were incredibly experienced people who were part of this association.
Many incredibly highly technically educated,.two of whom were professors in Acoustics and Digital Technology.
I personally listened to eleven quality USB-cables to and from my InnuOs Phoenix USB reclocker...
Before deciding which one's created the best musical synergy in my music system.
AGAIN,.draw relevant conclusions from it.
I have a simple question...
Are you listening to what you're talking about at all,.or is it just technical speculation.?
Because if you are listening,.well then you must be hearing impaired if you don't hear the difference.
You can't be so stupid so you think @SchiitMjolnir2 and I,.are two guys who need psychiatric help....
I started back in 1994,.a Hifi and Music Association that became known all over Sweden.
In that association we conducted many tests,.among other things, on different USB-cables.
Everyone,.over all the years, could hear the difference between different USB cables and later also Ethernet cables.
Now try to draw conclusions from that.And there were incredibly experienced people who were part of this association.
Many incredibly highly technically educated,.two of whom were professors in Acoustics and Digital Technology.
I personally listened to eleven quality USB-cables to and from my InnuOs Phoenix USB reclocker...
Before deciding which one's created the best musical synergy in my music system.
AGAIN,.draw relevant conclusions from it.
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Whether the PheonixUSB is a benefit or not to the analogue output of your music system is very much down to the DAC that you use.
I do agree that if you really want to understand whether or not PheonixUSB makes a difference
or not you should undertake listening sessions incorporating blind swaps and document your experience to familiar music. If you reliably prefer the music with the inclusion of the PheonixUSB then you have an answer. If you cannot, you also have an answer.
What you choose to do at that point is up to you.
If you haven’t done the above then accept you have made a decision based on well established knowledge of biased affirmation.
Me, I purchased one in a bundle with the streamer. Would I now purchase one again given my experiences (and my age, 67, now retired ) probably not, unless I did the above and was convinced it made an undeniable positive difference.
I do agree that if you really want to understand whether or not PheonixUSB makes a difference
or not you should undertake listening sessions incorporating blind swaps and document your experience to familiar music. If you reliably prefer the music with the inclusion of the PheonixUSB then you have an answer. If you cannot, you also have an answer.
What you choose to do at that point is up to you.
If you haven’t done the above then accept you have made a decision based on well established knowledge of biased affirmation.
Me, I purchased one in a bundle with the streamer. Would I now purchase one again given my experiences (and my age, 67, now retired ) probably not, unless I did the above and was convinced it made an undeniable positive difference.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I agree that scientific principles and measurements are valid. However, my thought is that not everything is measured in the digital audio world. Consider this scenario with the following criteria: the requirement is that a vehicle transports me from point “A” to point “B”. The measurement of success is which vehicle gets the best gas mileage. The candidates are the 1983 Chevrolet Chevette that I actually owned way back in the day. It had a 50 horsepower 4 cylinder motor, 4-speed manual transmission and no a/c. It got 28 mpg. The other is a Mercedes GLS580. It has a 510 horsepower V8 and a 9-speed automatic transmission and gets 25 mpg. The winner (using the only measurements that are available in this scenario) is the Chevette. My point: there are system synergies and enjoyment that are not measured today but I like my Audioquest cables and my Innuos Pulsar. And I hope I never have to drive a Chevette again.
Thank you for your honesty on this. Some people see scientific/engineering facts are somehow negotiable when audio products are concerned.
What is never up for debate is the human propensity to imagine things. That is why I pointed to Dianna Deutsch who is a leading light on psychoacoustics, but as usual that gets dismissed with reading one sentence of her work.
I don't know about you, but I evaluate a product from my extensive knowledge and education before moving to the next step.
1) I don't use bread flour in my petrol engine because I understand how a ICE works.
2) I don't jump from a tall building onto a concrete floor because I understand the frailty of the human body
3) I dont use silly Ethernet and USB re-clockers due my long career and education using these products in a real world environment and understand how they work.
Nothing wrong with keeping an open mind, but not so open that it falls out.
I only replied as someone wants to bad mouth another group due to there ack of understand of the technology involved. If they hadn't resorted to that to try to make there point you wouldn''t have heard from me on this subject.
Whoops ….. fat fingers…..
Retry, making a sauce but you are running out of time so you use a stick blender to mix ingredients and make a nice sauce…..
Next time, you’ve purchased a fancy blender station and you swear the sauce is better…..
Third time, a friend who is a qualified chef comes over , watches you get the fancy blender out and says, whoa man , what do you need this for, do it with a whisk and KNOW when it’s ready.
..But please,.my friend..!!Despite everything I've written to you in this thread,.you haven't absorbed anything, or understood anything..!!
THAT,.is actually amazing .I asked you a question in my last post above,.which you chose to avoid...
AND,.I understand why you chose to avoid it..!!
That post crushes everything you wrote recently.
Everything in your latest post just shows that you don't understand the slightest bit of everything I've written in the thread.
You're one of those narrow-minded technologists who lacks the ability to...
Think Outside the BoxALSO,.the most important thing,you don't listen with your ears..!!
We have our music-systems for practical listening to music,.and evaluating products with practical listening in the system to music...
NOT,.to speculate theoretically..!!The English High-End manufacturer Linn's
most important message is...
---------------------------------------------------------
JUST LISTEN,.AS SIMPLY AS THAT
---------------------------------------------------------
As I wrote earlier in the thread...
Come back in 5-10 years,.when you have gained more practical experience and knowledge of high-level music-systems.
THEN,.I guarantee you will argue differently.
IF NOT:
You're just one of those narrow-minded technologists who lacks the ability to...
Think Outside the BoxAnd,.who should absolutely not be involved in designing serious hi-fi products
Have a nice Wednesday..
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You have been avoiding questions from the very beginning. I am very happy to listen to things and I do, once they pass a bullshit test.
Despite everything I've written to you in this thread,.you haven't absorbed anything, or understood anything..!!
I asked you a question in my last post above,.which you chose to avoid...
AND,.I understand why you chose to avoid it..!!
That post crushes everything you wrote recently.
Everything in your latest post just shows that you don't understand the slightest bit of everything I've written in the thread.
You're one of those narrow-minded technologists who lacks the ability to...
ALSO,.the most important thing,you don't listen with your ears..!!
We have our music-systems for practical listening to music,.and evaluating products with practical listening in the system to music...
The English High-End manufacturer Linn's
most important message is...
---------------------------------------------------------
JUST LISTEN,.AS SIMPLY AS THAT
---------------------------------------------------------
As I wrote earlier in the thread...
Come back in 5-10 years,.when you have gained more practical experience and knowledge of high-level music-systems.
THEN,.I guarantee you will argue differently.
IF NOT:
You're just one of those narrow-minded technologists who lacks the ability to...
And,.who should absolutely not be involved in designing serious hi-fi products
Have a nice Wednesday..
I fully understand you and how you approach things. That is why I said you never accept that as a human you are fallible. You don’t just listen, you look, you read the marketing and you know the cost of something.
If you really want to listen and only listen you need to remove your biases. That is why I pointed you to Diana Deutsch and her work, but you aren’t interested in the science of audio engineering or psychoacoustics. You are one of these golden eared people who refuse the real world
