New to Innuos - Issues With Esoteric N05-XD

[ihmeyers]

Good afternoon. I am new to Innuos having just purchased a pre-owned Zenith SE this weekend. Long story short, a bear to get it to work with my Esoteric N05-XD DAC/Streamer. After 2 days of trial and error, it seems like it WILL output to the DAC using Roon, but WILL NOT using Sense. That's too bad because I am no fan of Roon sound quality. It could be a Linux issue with the Esoteric. The N05-XD readily supports Windows and iOS but it does not have a Linux driver to my knowledge. I know very little about this stuff but I am guessing Roon accepts Linux from the Zenith and passes the data stream in a format that the Esoteric understands. When using the Sense app instead of Linux I get no audio and the bitrate doesn't register on the Esoteric meaning something is off. There is enough of a signal for the DAC clock to lock but no matter what I try no audio.

The obvious answer is 'just use Roon' but right now using the Zenith/Roon through USB sounds worse than my Esoteric connected directly to an external SSD. I bought the Zenith because I figure that would provide higher sound quality that just attaching a hard drive.

Any thought are most appreciated.

Thanks very much.

 

[frank7036]

Are you disappointed in the Esoteric’s function as a streamer/dac?

 

[ihmeyers]

No. Not at all. I just thought that there was some upside in using an Innuos for file storage as opposed to using an external SSD. Maybe there will be (Zenith has only been plugged in for 2 1/2 days) but there is not yet. We'll see.

 

[frank7036]

Have you tried using the Zenith as an endpoint rather than a streamer?

 

[frank7036]

Good afternoon. I am new to Innuos having just purchased a pre-owned Zenith SE this weekend. Long story short, a bear to get it to work with my Esoteric N05-XD DAC/Streamer. After 2 days of trial and error, it seems like it WILL output to the DAC using Roon, but WILL NOT using Sense. That's too bad because I am no fan of Roon sound quality. It could be a Linux issue with the Esoteric. The N05-XD readily supports Windows and iOS but it does not have a Linux driver to my knowledge. I know very little about this stuff but I am guessing Roon accepts Linux from the Zenith and passes the data stream in a format that the Esoteric understands. When using the Sense app instead of Linux I get no audio and the bitrate doesn't register on the Esoteric meaning something is off. There is enough of a signal for the DAC clock to lock but no matter what I try no audio.

The obvious answer is 'just use Roon' but right now using the Zenith/Roon through USB sounds worse than my Esoteric connected directly to an external SSD. I bought the Zenith because I figure that would provide higher sound quality that just attaching a hard drive.

Any thought are most appreciated.

Thanks very much.

InnuOS firmware is Linux based (Logitech Media Server) as you say. Linux has all the drivers required loaded in the kernel so the receiving unit doesn’t require a separate driver.
From your description you are using the Zenith as a streamer/server (bypassing the Lumin based streamer built-in to the Esoteric) and going directly to the DAC via USB , Is that correct?
Have you connected to the Esoteric via the USB or USB-B? (The N-05XD also equips a USB B port allowing you to use it as a USB DAC for PC audio, as well as Roon Ready, giving you the freedom to tailor it to your listening environment and sound quality preferences.)

I believe if you want to use the Zenith as a storage device and feed the data stream directly to the Esoteric AND use the Esoteric internal streamer then put the Zenith on your LAN , set it as an endpoint and let the Esoteric pull from the Zenith.

 

[Esscee]

Hi,

Some research before purchasing Zenith SE might have helped, the SE is "old tech" in Innuos terms and you may have some hassle at times.

Hope you can get the detailed help you want.

Rgds

Stephen

 

[ihmeyers]

InnuOS firmware is Linux based (Logitech Media Server) as you say. Linux has all the drivers required loaded in the kernel so the receiving unit doesn’t require a separate driver.
From your description you are using the Zenith as a streamer/server (bypassing the Lumin based streamer built-in to the Esoteric) and going directly to the DAC via USB , Is that correct?
Have you connected to the Esoteric via the USB or USB-B? (The N-05XD also equips a USB B port allowing you to use it as a USB DAC for PC audio, as well as Roon Ready, giving you the freedom to tailor it to your listening environment and sound quality preferences.)

I believe if you want to use the Zenith as a storage device and feed the data stream directly to the Esoteric AND use the Esoteric internal streamer then put the Zenith on your LAN , set it as an endpoint and let the Esoteric pull from the Zenith.

Thank you Frank. This is exactly what the Esoteric U.S. importer told me yesterday. I need to use the USB A connection in order to use the Zenith as just a server. Esoteric is designed only to work with Windows and MAC OS through the USB B connection. I did not know that when I bought the Zenith. As to why I bought the Zenith as opposed to current Innuos technology...Many people have told me that I'd get better sound storing music on something other than a 4TB SSD. I was not then, and am not now convinced of that. I have friends that have NAS drives to store music and stream over their networks. The Esoteric has always sounded terrible that way, but sounds fantastic connected to an SSD. I don't know if that's due to Esoteric's design or noise on my network (which I have many month's reducing). I just know it sounds crappy. I figure I could spend $2.5k on a Zenith and just see how that works out. Now that it appears I might have to limit myself to Roon I'm not convinced it will be better than an SSD/Lumin streaming app but we'll see.

Along those lines, does anyone know where to get a high quality USB B to USB A adapter so I can try streaming via the USB A slot? I'm afraid all the adapters will degrade the sound quality. Thanks much to all for their help.

 

[DanCollier]

I think some matters are being confused here.

To clarify, The ZENith will not show up as an available drive when connected to the USB A port.

The USB A port on the Esoteric is for you to add an external USB drive for convenient playback. Just like you can on our systems, by adding a USB drive to playback some files that say your friend brings round for example. Its not an ideal use case on any system as external USB drives are noisy and you'll likely lack of filtering options as like ourselves we do not allow external storage to integrate with your main music library.

PULSE series and playing music from USB drives - Innuos - High-Fidelity Digital Music Servers and Streamers

The PULSE series have been designed as a streamer only device that is used mainly for the following scenarios:

innuos.com

The optimal way to benefit from the ZENith would be to use it as the source via the actual USB audio input which is the USB B port. This is the most commonly used port used for Inputs on USB dacs.

As mentioned in support, I believe its best I take a look at the system via remote session to see if theres something else at play causing the playback issues in Sense as Sense will sound a lot better than using Roon.

 

[ihmeyers]

Zenith won't work correctly using Sense through it's USB B port. The Esoteric distributor confirmed that:

"The USB-B connection on the backpanel of the N-05XD is exclusively a PC or MAC interface. It has no application for what you are hoping to achieve.

The USB-A connection on the backpanel of the N-05XD is where you would want to connect the Innous Zenith SE and be using it purely as a Server.

The input setting on the N-05XD would be set to NET."

I know, it doesn't make sense (pardon the pun) to me either. I've confirmed though that the Esoteric won't work correctly using the native Innuos app, but works fine using Zenith as a Roon core.

Ian

 

[DanCollier]

Lets follow this up in our ongoing support ticket.

 

[ihmeyers]

Thanks Dan. We have one open. #41763.

I'm surprised no one else had ever reported this. It's not like Innuos or Esoteric are small cottage brands. There was nothing anywhere that I found about compatibility issues between the Zenith and Esoteric products.

 

[Octaviars]

I know, it doesn't make sense (pardon the pun) to me either. I've confirmed though that the Esoteric won't work correctly using the native Innuos app, but works fine using Zenith as a Roon core.

When you use Roon do you use USB out from Zenith to USB-B on Esoteric or do you have both Zenith and Esoteric connected via LAN to your network (no USB connected)?

The Esoteric is a Roon Ready device and if you run your Zenith as a Roon Server machine the Esoteric will show up as a Roon Endpoint under audio devices.

It seems that Esoteric is using the Openhome protocol to stream to the LAN connection that is similar to the regulare UPnP protocol that Innuos supports but the two protocols are not the same and I dont think the Esoteric will show up as a UPnP renderer when you activate UPnP in the Zentih if it does that you would be able to use Sense to control the music.

I might be wrong on how UPnP and Openhome will work with Innuos and Esoteric as I dont have any experience with just that combination.

The USB-A connection on the backpanel of the N-05XD is where you would want to connect the Innous Zenith SE and be using it purely as a Server.

This will not work the Zenith it is not possible to connect as a standalone USB disk so that connection is not something you need to bother with.

 

[ihmeyers]

Only the Zenith is connected to the LAN for a couple of reasons. One, my switch is in my network room which is behind the home theater, about 50 feet from the Zenith. Secondly, the Esoteric sounded awful, IMO, connected to a server/streamer and pulling data over the network (I have another server connected in another music room that serves up music to other streaming appliances in the house). When I used this other server (an expensive cottage unit) to stream to the Esoteric when I first got all my rooms setup I didn't like the sound quality. I ended up attaching an SSD to the Esoteric and streamed using the Soundstream app (which is Lumin). Enough of my audio friends told me I'd get better sound quality with a server attached directly to the Esoteric so I bought a used Zenith SE.

The Zenith is connected to the Esoteric from DAC out on Zenith to USB in on the Esoteric. That works fine using Roon but will not serve up streams correctly using Sense. I've got a tech support appointment for Thursday to look at that, but the Esoteric distributor said the DAC won't work right with a Linux server. I guess we'll see.

 

[frank7036]

@ihmeyers It is unfortunate you are having these issues but as you say hopefully the tech support session will come up with a solution. Please report back here the outcome as it might help a future user, and, I’m also curious. Good luck.

 

[ihmeyers]

Thanks very much. I'm somewhat frustrated but not pulling my hair out. Like I said, the Zenith and the Esoteric play nicely using Roon. I'm just not sure that the sound quality using Roon and an expensive server will be any better than Lumin app and an external SSD. We'll see in a couple of days.

 

[guardajoias]

I know the distributor said to connect to USB-A, but that does not sound right. It is only for drives which is why it works for your SSD. The Roon may work through the network as the DAC is Roon ready. Have you actually tried connecting the Zenith to the USB-B input of the DAC? Then see it if it shows up in the Audio panel of the Zenith settings... That would be the logical connection.

 

[ihmeyers]

The Roon connection now is not through the network. Only the Zenith has a network connection right now, not the Esoteric. Zenith DAC out to Esoteric USB B in. It plays fine using Roon. When using Sense, the DAC kind of sees the stream but not fully. It knows there is a USB stream coming in (which is why DAC doesn't blink) and the external clock lights up. However, it does not play audio and can't read the bitrate of what I'm playing. Everything registers on the Esoteric as 44.1 FLAC even if the sampling rate is 192khz or if it's a DSD. So something isn't coming through correctly. Again, the distributor said the USB B input only works with Windows and MAC PCs.