INNUOS vs USB-cables
- Thread starter Peder
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....I recently ordered an M2TECH HiFace2 USB to S/PDIF Converter after an Innuos suggestion they had some positive experiences with it. It may be difficult to find outside the USA.
I don’t have the streamer I’ve ordered yet so I haven’t tried it. I plan on using it to connect the standard USB output on a Stream1 to a Coax input on an Anthem AVM 90 that doesn't have a USB DAC input. I'll only use it for occasional background music through a whole house speaker system. My primary connection will be from the Stream1's PhoenixUSB board to my 2-channel preamp's USB DAC input. I'm told I can switch outputs through the Sense app and only one output can be active at a time.
https://www.m2techusa.com/products/hiface-two-hi-end-s-pdif-output-interface
I bought mine from Hi-Fi Heaven
Thanks @Midway, I have a Manunta HiFace USB to SPDIF converter that I use occasionally with a Naim DAC. However, my cat climbed up the back of my hifi stack and pulling on the cable to the Manunta converter bent it out of shape. I don't think it is usable now. I haven't managed to find a replacement in the UK, but I think your reply is useful to me because I can search for M2TECH now.
Please may I ask what you now use? I’m having this constant debate on dCS site, USB vs LAN.
Innuos appear to recommend the USB option.
I haven’t actually purchased my Innuos just yet, as I’m wondering if I should get the PhoenixUSB module upgrade on the Zen NG?
Thanks
USB and Ethernet are not the same protocol, I've got an explainer on it here:
Which sounds better, Ethernet or USB? Which should I use? - Innuos - High-Fidelity Digital Music Servers and Streamers
Even though they can both be used to play music, Ethernet and USB don’t do the same job.
innuos.com
But to give the short version; the question is not USB vs Ethernet, the question is which device do you want to be doing the streaming, the dCS or the Innuos?
USB = the Innuos is the streamer, bypassing the one the streamer in the dCS. You'd use Innuos Sense app.
Ethernet = you use the streamer in the dCS, the Innuos is relegated to storage device only. You'd use dCS Mosaic app.
This is a great topic actually. USB cables don't make just a difference, they make a huge difference! Before I bought my Innuos Pulsar I had an Innuos Pulse wirh an Ansuz X2 USB feeding my McIntosh MA12000 integrated amplifier that has McIntosh DAC2 built in. I assumed it was a good USB because that's what the dealer sold me with the Innuos Pulse. A year later I replaced the Pulse with the Pulsar and the upgrade was immediate and immense. Then a year later I sold the McIntosh and purchased Accuphase separates that include A48-S Class-A amplifier, C2300 preamplifier and DC-37 Processor/DAC. I never really gave this Ansuz X2 USB any real credibility and thought it's like any other USB who's job is to send info from point A to point B. Well I was wrong, dead wrong! A dealer told me that my Ansuz X2 was old tech and should really consider replacing it with an Audience FrontRow USB. This was a painful 500 hour experience to say the least. With the Audience FrontRow the soundstage collapsed, imaging was blurred, midrange was muddy, and I lost resolution and PRAT. Everything was terrible. Upon connecting my Ansuz X2 everything I loved about my Accuphase and music returned instantly. I went back and forth with the 2 cables and demo'd them for friends and we all agreed that the Ansuz X2 USB was superior and needless to say I sold the Audience FrontRow. I will most definitely audition a newer Anzus through an authorized dealer who offers in home demos. He's also an Audience dealer but based on my preference he's suggesting that I stay with the Anzus line. Try before you buy! Hope this helps.
Thank you Stephen. I have read that this morning. It has been written very well, so even people like me can understand it.USB and Ethernet are not the same protocol, I've got an explainer on it here:
Which sounds better, Ethernet or USB? Which should I use? - Innuos - High-Fidelity Digital Music Servers and Streamers
Even though they can both be used to play music, Ethernet and USB don’t do the same job.
But to give the short version; the question is not USB vs Ethernet, the question is which device do you want to be doing the streaming, the dCS or the Innuos?
USB = the Innuos is the streamer, bypassing the one the streamer in the dCS. You'd use Innuos Sense app.
Ethernet = you use the streamer in the dCS, the Innuos is relegated to storage device only. You'd use dCS Mosaic app.
Normally when I have had streamers in the past, including my Bluesound Node, Naim NDX 2, I have always used LAN, as the DAC is built in.
This will be uncharted territory for me, as I have never used a USB connection before, since I started my streaming adventure back in 2010.
dCS are famous for their DACs so that is what it will be used for.
Innuos are famous for their Server/ Streamers, so that will be my one and only source. It will sit very nicely on the middle shelf of my Quadraspire X-Reference rack.
McIntosh and Accuphase were on my short list of amps just before Christmas, but because I’m a boring old sod that likes minimal and clean lines, I went for the Vitus SIA-025. It blew my Naim 300DR right out of the water. But it should have done, it was 3 times the price!
The Anzus cables look well priced, but it’s not all about the money is it. Because dCS recommend unshielded Ethernet cables (I feel another conversation coming on
) I bought a Blue Jeans cable unshielded CAT 5 for £138 delivered from the States. I will definitely try the Anzus cable.Thanks
@fireguy I believe we already discussed this in another forum but in case not, I use a Pulsar and PhoenixNet. The addition of the PhoenixNet made a very nice overall improvement by lowering the noise floor and increasing resolution particularly low level detail. Regarding the OP’s original question of USB cables, I’ve tried several and prefer the Stealth USB far and above anything else for use between my streamer and DAC. I’m currently using an Audience Hidden Treasure CAT 7 between the Pulsar and PhoenixNet. The Hidden Treasure does a nice job but I will probably be changing to a Stealth Black Magic Ethernet cable in the near future to bring out more of the Stealth very smooth and musical sound signature to my digital front end.
I hope @fireguy doesn’t mind, but may I jump in and ask, is the PhoenixNet in addition to your system and you are still using a USB connection between your Pulsar and DAC? Have you got an upgraded USB board on your Pulsar?
Thanks
@Ranger176 yes, PhoenixNet to Pulsar via CAT7, and Pulsar PhoenixUSB Board out to DAC.
I originally had a Zenith Mk3 and installed a PheonixNET which made a noticeable difference to the sound in my system. I’ve kept the PheonixNET in the system even though the streamer has been upgraded to the Zenith NG.
I use Sablon 2020 Ethernet cables and when I use a USB DAC I also use Sablon EVO USB cables (via PhoenixUSB).
As my primary DAC performs best using i2s I have the Innuos i2s module in the Zenith NG and feed i2s directly to dac via a Tubulus Concentus V2 i2s cable.
I use Sablon 2020 Ethernet cables and when I use a USB DAC I also use Sablon EVO USB cables (via PhoenixUSB).
As my primary DAC performs best using i2s I have the Innuos i2s module in the Zenith NG and feed i2s directly to dac via a Tubulus Concentus V2 i2s cable.
I've been into music and had a system of reasonable quality since my late teens which is well over half a century now. As the decades passed my system changed and increased in quality to where I am today, the lower end of high end audio. It was 2020 when I decided to move to a streamer/server based system buying my first Innuos product, a Zen Mini. This was upgraded by adding the power supply then traded in for a Zen Mk3. The DAC in use throughout this streaming journey has been a Chord Electronics Dave.
The thing that has surprised me most is the difference a USB makes. Back in 2020 I used the USB supplied with the Chord. More than acceptable. Six months later I changed it for an Audioquest Carbon. I simply couldn't believe the difference, everything sounded much more natural/musical. Perhaps the biggest change I've ever recognised with any cable wether it be speaker, interconnect or power.
The carbon was swapped for an Audioquest Coffee. Another improvement but not in the league of the Chord supplied to Audioquest Carbon. Earlier this year I took a chance on a little known outfit Artisan Silver Cables an online company based on the Isle of Wight and their Ultimate Silver Stream USB. At about a third of the price of the Audioquest Coffee another great improvement was made, not as great as my first change but certainly greater than Carbon to Coffee. The bonus for me was that the Coffee was sold for more than the cost of the Ultimate Silver Stream.
The thing that has surprised me most is the difference a USB makes. Back in 2020 I used the USB supplied with the Chord. More than acceptable. Six months later I changed it for an Audioquest Carbon. I simply couldn't believe the difference, everything sounded much more natural/musical. Perhaps the biggest change I've ever recognised with any cable wether it be speaker, interconnect or power.
The carbon was swapped for an Audioquest Coffee. Another improvement but not in the league of the Chord supplied to Audioquest Carbon. Earlier this year I took a chance on a little known outfit Artisan Silver Cables an online company based on the Isle of Wight and their Ultimate Silver Stream USB. At about a third of the price of the Audioquest Coffee another great improvement was made, not as great as my first change but certainly greater than Carbon to Coffee. The bonus for me was that the Coffee was sold for more than the cost of the Ultimate Silver Stream.
It's funny how cables definitely work in some circumstances, but not in others. Back in 2002, my old speakers had cheap, grey wire. The type of wire you would wire a doorbell up with. I went to Richer Sounds and he sold me speaker cable costing £1.50 a metre! Blimey, it was night and day! Like a new system. Then recently, my dealer loaned me a couple of Entreq Power leads at £380 each. One on my Vitus SIA-025 and one on my dCS Barók DAC Not a single difference in SQ.
So, if you were a betting man and you had the Zen NG with the PhoenixUSB board costing about £10,500 and a dCS DAC costing £19,000. What USB cable would you suggest?
Just looked at Artisan Silver Cables in the IOW. 30 day money back guarantee. What's not to like?
To answer what cable would I use with an absolute top flight server/streamer & DAC? As I have only had experience of the manufactuers I listed I would have to say I would stick with Artisan Silver Cables who offer a 'better' version of the USB I have. Using the direct sales model seems to enable them to sell at half to a third of the price of the well known brands. This applies across all the cable ranges they do.
There are a number of online reviews of their different products and all seem positive. Another positive is that they rarely appear on the used market.
When funds allow I will be taking the plunge with their interconnected and speaker cables. As already noted with a 30 day money back guarantee there's little risk.
Just to clarify I have absolutely nothing to do with said company.
There are a number of online reviews of their different products and all seem positive. Another positive is that they rarely appear on the used market.
When funds allow I will be taking the plunge with their interconnected and speaker cables. As already noted with a 30 day money back guarantee there's little risk.
Just to clarify I have absolutely nothing to do with said company.