Innuos Phoenix USB

I need educating. If the USB of the receiving dac is re-clocking any incoming USB signal, does the Phoenix improve things because the receiving dac has a better clocked USB signal to work with?
 
I need educating. If the USB of the receiving dac is re-clocking any incoming USB signal, does the Phoenix improve things because the receiving dac has a better clocked USB signal to work with?
Many (most?) DACs use asynchronous USB which means the DAC requests the data(usb packet) from the host (streamer), stores an amount of data in a buffer and reclocks the data based on its own internal clock.
There is no change to the data.
As long as the incoming data isn’t all over the place, which would be outside of the specifications for data exchange the increasingly small improvements in timing of incoming data are unlikely to improve the performance of the DAC interpolator (if the output of the streamer has already provided a well clocked data stream).
There may be improvements to the function of the DAC with less noise on the incoming data stream because of the Phoenix’s improved electrical isolation, grounding, filtering etc.
DACs that reconstruct the data stream entirely are even less likely to be affected by upstream reclocking but maybe continue to get the other benefits.
Be aware that reclocking is contentious within the audio community - some believe in it , others do not.

Perhaps read another discussion such as : Clocking

Me, I own a PhoenixUSB and a PhoenixNet.

Try one in your own system, borrow/loan one. Get a friend to help you undertake blind testing in and out of your system, repeat several times and if you consistently pick the status (in/out) you have your answer.
 
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Also USB DACs have not only an audio clock but a USB clock, which is often overlooked. This is often sensitive to voltage and grounding, and especially to timing information. The PhoenixUSB directly addresses this, giving the DAC far greater signal integrity and timing to work with - this is why you can hear a difference.
 
@NickV this is a good article to read about USB. Fundamentals

Depending on the DAC designer a DAC may have multiple clocks for different reasons (e.g. different input formats may require seperate clocks) and if they chose a different clock for USB you can bet the designer had a reason. If necessary, the clock(s) used for USB or other inputs will be synchronised with the internal master clock or jitter will increase.
DAC designers have differing opinions on what issues are the most important to the final analogue output - it’s often worthwhile to explore what the architect of the DAC you are using believes to be the hierarchy of improvements you can make to the incoming data stream for the DAC.

The good thing is that Innuos (and other manufacturers) give you a choice , try before you purchase. Don’t purchase 1st or you set yourself up for confirmation bias to prove your purchase was correct.
Or, don’t worry about it and just purchase, then enjoy your system and music presentation.
GOOD LUCK and good listening.
 
Many (most?) DACs use asynchronous USB which means the DAC requests the data(usb packet) from the host (streamer), stores an amount of data in a buffer and reclocks the data based on its own internal clock.
There is no change to the data.
As long as the incoming data isn’t all over the place, which would be outside of the specifications for data exchange the increasingly small improvements in timing of incoming data are unlikely to improve the performance of the DAC interpolator (if the output of the streamer has already provided a well clocked data stream).
There may be improvements to the function of the DAC with less noise on the incoming data stream because of the Phoenix’s improved electrical isolation, grounding, filtering etc.
DACs that reconstruct the data stream entirely are even less likely to be affected by upstream reclocking but maybe continue to get the other benefits.
Be aware that reclocking is contentious within the audio community - some believe in it , others do not.

Perhaps read another discussion such as : Clocking

Me, I own a PhoenixUSB and a PhoenixNet.

Try one in your own system, borrow/loan one. Get a friend to help you undertake blind testing in and out of your system, repeat several times and if you consistently pick the status (in/out) you have your answer.
In fact, if replacing the USB cable can change the sound, then USB clock reassembly is also meaningful. Of course, all of this needs to be tested in your own system. Even if it is effective in someone else's system, it is meaningless for you. The system itself uses different power environments, and even with the same system configuration, there will be a significant difference in sound
 
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The official Innos Phoenix USB will definitely come forward to point out the problem. If the official remains silent, I feel it is a bad sign that such a high priced device is not worth a penny by players
 
The official Innos Phoenix USB will definitely come forward to point out the problem. If the official remains silent, I feel it is a bad sign that such a high priced device is not worth a penny by players

Certainly, it would be helpful if there is a meaningful response from Innuos to this testing.
 
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The official Innos Phoenix USB will definitely come forward to point out the problem. If the official remains silent, I feel it is a bad sign that such a high priced device is not worth a penny by players
I would be interested how they cope with USB 2.0 specification (section 11.7.1)
 
Certainly, it would be helpful if there is a meaningful response from Innuos to this testing.
Same here.
I have both Phoenix USB and Phoenix NET in my setup. And I can clearly hear the impact of Phoenix USB (in my setup even more audible compared to Phoenix NET). And not only would I like to know exactly what’s behind it (beyond expectation bias), but I’d also like to have some reasonable technical arguments ready against the “measurement worshippers” who occasionally accuse me personally of falling for the marketing and buying something that “does nothing”, specifically the Phoenix USB reclocker.

In my opinion, at the very least, Innuos has a moral obligation to provide us, its customers, with some reasonable counterarguments to “does nothing” claim backed up by some measurements. Simply saying, “it just sounds better” probably won’t hold up against such sophisticated accusations as those in the ASR review.
 
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Same here.
I have both Phoenix USB and Phoenix NET in my setup. And I can clearly hear the impact of Phoenix USB (in my setup even more audible compared to Phoenix NET). And not only would I like to know exactly what’s behind it (beyond expectation bias), but I’d also like to have some reasonable technical arguments ready against the “measurement worshippers” who occasionally accuse me personally of falling for the marketing and buying something that “does nothing”, specifically the Phoenix USB reclocker.

In my opinion, at the very least, Innuos has a moral obligation to provide us, its customers, with some reasonable counterarguments to “does nothing” claim backed up by some measurements. Simply saying, “it just sounds better” probably won’t hold up against such sophisticated accusations as those in the ASR review.
Look at USB 2.0 specs chapter 11 section 7 subsection 1. It’s not just a review on a website. It goes against the worldwide standards for USB 2.0, irrespective of audio companies.
 
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