Sense - release 3.0.0

Changelog

Features and Improvements

• Introducing TIDAL Connect
• Allow to hide playlists in the playlists page
• Additional sorting for playlists
• Playlist filters
• It's now possible to add all tracks from a Qobuz, TIDAL and Sense playlist to new or existing Sense playlists
• It's now possible to add all tracks from a TIDAL/Qobuz playlist to a user-created TIDAL/Qobuz playlist
• It's now possible to remove and change position of tracks on user-created TIDAL/Qobuz Playlists
• It's now possible to save a queue with only Qobuz/TIDAL tracks directly into a Qobuz/TIDAL playlist
• Support for Qobuz Collaborative Playlist
• Multiple album editing options have been combined into a single smart 'Merge Album' feature
• Added support for expandable storage for ZEN NG and ZENith NG
• Added support for using an external optical Drive for the ZEN NG and ZENith NG
• Improved UI for alphabetic index sliders
• Clicking/touching the album cover on the Now Playing screen opens a larger version of the cover
• Improve NAS status check performance when rescanning a folder

Bug Fixes

• Fixed missing information when accessing the track info in 'Now Playing' screen for Deezer tracks
• Fixed issue that caused a Qobuz section to be shown at the bottom of every album even when Qobuz was logged out
• Fixed issue with volume slider in iOS devices

 

[mikehughescq]

A few things amiss for me after the update.

1 - New Music has randomly added Tidal versions of albums I have in Qobuz and have certainly never added in Tidal.

2 - significant and unwelcome drop off in sound quality. Mids and warmth have gone. So, lots of detail but an element of grain has appeared and the lovely balanced sound has been replaced by something both Mrs. H. and I recognised as unwelcome and quite fatiguing.

Very concerned about the latter as it’s not enjoyable at all.

 

[alanrew]

A few things amiss for me after the update.

1 - New Music has randomly added Tidal versions of albums I have in Qobuz and have certainly never added in Tidal.

2 - significant and unwelcome drop off in sound quality. Mids and warmth have gone. So, lots of detail but an element of grain has appeared and the lovely balanced sound has been replaced by something both Mrs. H. and I recognised as unwelcome and quite fatiguing.

Very concerned about the latter as it’s not enjoyable at all.

I'd be very interested to hear what has caused your change in sound quality, when this problem is solved.

Is this with streamed music, or with (e.g.) FLAC files you've downloaded?

 

[Peder]

2 - significant and unwelcome drop off in sound quality. Mids and warmth have gone. So, lots of detail but an element of grain has appeared and the lovely balanced sound has been replaced by something both Mrs. H. and I recognised as unwelcome and quite fatiguing.

Very concerned about the latter as it’s not enjoyable at all.

Hi ...
Sorry to hear this about the sound quality.
I was going to do this upgrade to Sense 3 today,.but I think I'll wait until I see where this goes.

We'll see what those responsible at InnuOs comment on this,.with the perceived poorer sound quality.

 

[Peder]

Hi ...
Sorry to hear this about the sound quality.
I was going to do this upgrade to Sense 3 today,.but I think I'll wait until I see where this goes.

We'll see what those responsible at InnuOs comment on this,.with the perceived poorer sound quality.

QUESTION:
Are there more people who experience a reduced sound quality with Sense 3,.or is it only connected to mikehughescq's system above..??

 

[Esscee]

Beginning to think about not upgrading to 3.0 as well, think I will wait for 3.5 or so.
Hope Innuos is not getting to be like that well known company that regularly updates its Windows operating system.
I usually wait many weeks before updating Windows because each update seems to cause as many "glitches" as it is meant to cure.
A loss of sound quality is definitely not good needs very urgent sorting out, when talking with Stephen Healy at Bristol show on the Friday lunchtime I asked if there were any more plans to continue to improve the sound quality as a benefit to Innuos owners.
Cost of the products demands highest sound quality possible together with continuous improvement in future upgrades.
All very well adding/changing parts of Sense app, Innuos have to ensure that they do not lose sound quality while all these requests of fancy "tweaking" that some owners appear to be asking for.
Just because "so and so " app can do various things does not mean the Sense app has to do it too!
Could end up as "Jack of all trades but Master of none" if not careful.

 

[NVitorino]

I personally do extensive testing of every software release on our sound room and most certainly would not release an update that would have a negative impact on sound quality. Sound quality is paramount to us and we are constantly thriving for new strategies to improve it. Such a description of drop of sound quality there as "mids and warmth have gone" would be very evident in testing. Perhaps the software volume is not set at 100% as that will have an audible influence in sound quality? We had this on Beta with dozens of users from Statements to PULSEmini and never heard anyone mentioning a drop ion sound quality, on the contrary - they were noticing a small improvement...

With Sense 3, the main changes in terms of sound were done for ZEN/ZENith Next-Gen only to make the most of the new architecture. We have a few improvements that we are testing for all systems. Do mind this is hi-fi, so it's all very personal and what some will consider an improvement, others may not. It is what it is.

Every upgrade in our software is to both elevate sound quality and the user experience. Do you feel none of the features offered with this update are useful to you?

 

[NVitorino]

A few things amiss for me after the update.

1 - New Music has randomly added Tidal versions of albums I have in Qobuz and have certainly never added in Tidal.

2 - significant and unwelcome drop off in sound quality. Mids and warmth have gone. So, lots of detail but an element of grain has appeared and the lovely balanced sound has been replaced by something both Mrs. H. and I recognised as unwelcome and quite fatiguing.

Very concerned about the latter as it’s not enjoyable at all.

As for 1. I'd be very interested in checking this as I see no way for our software to add albums from TIDAL to your Library that are not on your TIDAL favorites. If you can reach me via PM, I'd be interested in doing a remote session to check this in detail.

 

[alanrew]

As for 1. I'd be very interested in checking this as I see no way for our software to add albums from TIDAL to your Library that are not on your TIDAL favorites. If you can reach me via PM, I'd be interested in doing a remote session to check this in detail.

As a general point, I think it would be useful to provide a way for users to go back to the previous 2.x version, if they don't like the sound quality after the 3.x upgrade.

If the app has changed the sound of somebody's system to the extent they're no longer happy with it, this simple step would be a huge benefit. On Android this would probably involve them having to uninstall the 3.x version & then install a 2.x version from an approved place.

Please consider this.

 

[mikehughescq]

Suspecting the drop in sound quality is coincidental. Chord DAC just back from repair a few weeks back and did something odd on switch on i.e. it seemed to go on/off/on bedridden going into the charge cycle. Suspect it’s either gone bad again or frieda cap or two on my power amp.

The Tidal albums I’ve deleted as duplicates have not come back so that may have just been an opening quirk of 3.

Not mentioned it before but it’s switching devices from Innuos to a Naim Muso QB upstairs. I am wondering if that’s a consequence of the DAC playing up too though.

 

[alanrew]

Suspecting the drop in sound quality is coincidental. Chord DAC just back from repair a few weeks back and did something odd on switch on i.e. it seemed to go on/off/on bedridden going into the charge cycle. Suspect it’s either gone bad again or frieda cap or two on my power amp.

The Tidal albums I’ve deleted as duplicates have not come back so that may have just been an opening quirk of 3.

Not mentioned it before but it’s switching devices from Innuos to a Naim Muso QB upstairs. I am wondering if that’s a consequence of the DAC playing up too though.

Thanks for updating us on the sound quality issue. Looks as if it's nothing to do with the Sense app - which is good news.

Sorry to hear about your Chord DAC. Just out of curiosity, which model is it? I've had Chord DACs for the last 7 years with no problems so far. Currently have a Qutest.

 

[Toneranger]

No drop in sound quality here. Would like to know if the volume slider was a planned change. Doesn’t do anything now, it was a nice feature to have. I recall you have stated it needs to be at 100% for full sonic quality, is that correct? I use to run it around 95% seemed to best sounding with my system at 95%. Thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[alanrew]

No drop in sound quality here. Would like to know if the volume slider was a planned change. Doesn’t do anything now, it was a nice feature to have. I recall you have stated it needs to be at 100% for full sonic quality, is that correct? I use to run it around 95% seemed to best sounding with my system at 95%. Thoughts are appreciated. Thanks.

For any sound level below 100%, the server will have to do this digitally. For PCM audio this will reduce the number of bits representing each sample, reducing the precision of the samples. No doubt InnuOs does this in a sophisticated/smooth way, but the resolution will be lower.

You might not notice the effect with 24-bit recordings which have a lot of leeway, but with 16-bit you might notice, depending on the nature of the recorded material & the overall resolution of your system. With lossy sources like MP3 it might be less audible.

For best sound quality the server "volume level" needs to be 100% to preserve all the data. Hope this helps.

 

[mikehughescq]

Thanks for updating us on the sound quality issue. Looks as if it's nothing to do with the Sense app - which is good news.

Sorry to hear about your Chord DAC. Just out of curiosity, which model is it? I've had Chord DACs for the last 7 years with no problems so far. Currently have a Qutest.

Chord Hugo TT2. Power supply had to be changed first time. This time it was a full PCB. Not sure what the new issue is yet but think it went on/off/on and may have blown a cap on my amplification. Conversation with dealer to follow (again).

 

[Alex11]

Just also add from my point of view as already betatesting sense 3, i havent realized any negativ soundeffects of sense 3 on my zenith mk3, so i absoluteley can recommend the update

… and also can confirm i will never go back to chord as my TT2 has gone defective 2 times within 1,5 years, than my dealer offered me to trade it in…

 

[Peder]

Hi Stephen Healy, NVitorino

I experienced a strange phenomenon yesterday.
I have been waiting a few days to upgrade to Sense 3,.have read that InnuOs says this upgrade can take a long time, up to an hour.

Yesterday when I pushed the button and started the upgrade,…it started at level 4 .
The upgrade consists of five steps,.1 through 5, but started at level 4.
I didn’t time it,.but the whole upgrade took less than 15 minutes.

Did you,.who has done this upgrade experienced it in a similar way..??
If not,.tell me about your upgrade.

But despite this,.everything seems to work as it should.
Regarding the soundquality,.I experience a little less “flesh and blood”, but it can also be normal variations from day to day.

BUT,.what I'm curious about, why did the upgrade start at level 4…
AND,.could there be something wrong with my upgraded Zenith mk3
Perhaps the aforementioned
from InnuOs can comment on this.

 

[alanrew]

Hi Stephen Healy, NVitorino

I experienced a strange phenomenon yesterday.
I have been waiting a few days to upgrade to Sense 3,.have read that InnuOs says this upgrade can take a long time, up to an hour.

Yesterday when I pushed the button and started the upgrade,…it started at level 4 .
The upgrade consists of five steps,.1 through 5, but started at level 4.
I didn’t time it,.but the whole upgrade took less than 15 minutes.

Did you,.who has done this upgrade experienced it in a similar way..??
If not,.tell me about your upgrade.

But despite this,.everything seems to work as it should.
Regarding the soundquality,.I experience a little less “flesh and blood”, but it can also be normal variations from day to day.

BUT,.what I'm curious about, why did the upgrade start at level 4…
AND,.could there be something wrong with my upgraded Zenith mk3
Perhaps the aforementioned
from InnuOs can comment on this.

You say

"Regarding the soundquality,.I experience a little less “flesh and blood”, but it can also be normal variations from day to day."

can you give examples of what you mean? Do you mean detail? Tone?

It's worth noting that many/most hi fi systems have a "warming up" period from switch-on, during which time the transparency & tone of the system can change noticeably, depending on the system components & the source material.

Thanks in advance for more details.

 

[Toneranger]

With all I’m reading it looks like there is a designed sonic improvement in the recent Sense update. Can Innuos detail what their expectations were from the sonic update. I feel my system sound has benefitted via the update. The bottom seems fuller and hearing more into the music (more depth) with further refined instrument and vocal separation. Anyone else hearing these improvements? I was leaning towards a highly resolving system when I put mine together. It really shows the impact of changes in any part of the signal chain, system details (zen mk3> USB Denafrips T2 12> balanced nordost valhalla xlr cables>Sim Audio Moon 700i> Focal Sopra 2 speakers. Thanks

 

[Peder]

Hi Stephen Healy, NVitorino

I think my question was forgotten, so I repeat it below...
-------------------------
I experienced a strange phenomenon yesterday.
I have been waiting a few days to upgrade to Sense 3,.have read that InnuOs says this upgrade can take a long time, up to an hour.

Yesterday when I pushed the button and started the upgrade,…it started at level 4 .
The upgrade consists of five steps,.1 through 5, but started at level 4.
I didn’t time it,.but the whole upgrade took less than 15 minutes.

Did you,.who has done this upgrade experienced it in a similar way..??
If not,.tell me about your upgrade.

But despite this,.everything seems to work as it should.

BUT,.what I'm curious about, why did the upgrade start at level 4…
AND,.could there be something wrong with my upgraded Zenith mk3 because of that.
Perhaps Stephen or Nuno from InnuOs can comment on this.

 

[Stephen Healy]

Hi Stephen Healy, NVitorino

I think my question was forgotten, so I repeat it below...
-------------------------
I experienced a strange phenomenon yesterday.
I have been waiting a few days to upgrade to Sense 3,.have read that InnuOs says this upgrade can take a long time, up to an hour.

Yesterday when I pushed the button and started the upgrade,…it started at level 4 .
The upgrade consists of five steps,.1 through 5, but started at level 4.
I didn’t time it,.but the whole upgrade took less than 15 minutes.

Did you,.who has done this upgrade experienced it in a similar way..??
If not,.tell me about your upgrade.

But despite this,.everything seems to work as it should.

BUT,.what I'm curious about, why did the upgrade start at level 4…
AND,.could there be something wrong with my upgraded Zenith mk3 because of that.
Perhaps Stephen or Nuno from InnuOs can comment on this.

Not sure i can account for progress script accuracy, but i strongly doubt there is an issue with the update if it went through to the finish and completed successfully. If issues to occur with your system then please post those finding over in the Help section of the forum.